In recent years, the phenomenon of Protestants converting to Catholicism or Orthodoxy has gradually attracted global attention. Does this phenomenon exist in China, and is it becoming a trend? What are the common characteristics and motivations of those who convert? Can Protestant churches reflect on or learn from these shifts? How should pastors understand and respond to them?
Jiang Lanbo holds a PhD in religion and philosophy from Hong Kong Baptist University and a master's degree in the same field from Wuhan University. She is currently engaged in theological education and has conducted extensive research on the Orthodox church and spirituality. Having interacted with believers who have converted from Protestantism to Orthodoxy or have shown interest in Catholicism and Orthodoxy, the Chinese Christian content platform Evangelical Vision conducted the following interview with Dr. Jiang.
Evangelical Vision: Based on your observations, is this interest in Catholicism or Orthodoxy merely occasional, or is it becoming a notable phenomenon?
Dr. Jiang Lanbo: Among the Chinese church, conversion is still relatively rare. This may be related to the limited presence of Catholic and Orthodox churches. However, it is true that interest in these traditions among Protestant laypeople and pastors is increasing.
One example came from my theological program, where I was studying the work of the 20th-century American Baptist historian Jaroslav Pelikan. He was originally a Protestant pastor but converted to Orthodoxy in 1998 during his academic research. His major work systematically presenting the Orthodox spirituality is The Christian Tradition: A History of the Development of Doctrine, Vol. 2: The Spirit of Eastern Christendom. His deep study of historical theology led him to be profoundly influenced by the intellectual brilliance and mystical spirituality of the Church Fathers.
I have long studied the spiritual theology of the Greek Fathers. Some Protestants around us, influenced by spiritual theology, have also considered conversion. One brother converted to Catholicism a few years ago and even planned to become Orthodox later. Since the Eastern Orthodox church in China is scarce, he first approached Catholicism. He left his stable job to serve the poor in Southeast Asia.
Some Protestant pastors and theological educators I know encountered patristics, such as the Jesus Prayer and contemplation, while studying theology in South Korea. For instance, a house church pastor in Beijing introduced the Jesus Prayer or the Prayer of the Heart on a Bible education platform in early 2024, informing that he learned it in Korea.
There is also a spiritual center in Hebei associated with Catholicism, where practices like those of Teresa of Ávila and Ignatius of Loyola are taught. Many Protestants go there for retreats and training.
Evangelical Vision: Do those attracted to or converting to these traditions share common characteristics?
Dr. Jiang Lanbo: They often prefer less speculative theology and are more drawn to experiencing God's majesty and love through worship. They appreciate liturgy, repetition, and a sense of participation that fosters reverence and inner rest.
The church father Maximus said that the goal of spiritual intellect (nous) is rest (hesychia) in God, which relies not on inactivity but on a unification of the soul in God, to bring together the scattered inner energies of the self into unity in God.
The book of Hebrews says: "Let us therefore make every effort to enter that rest" (Heb. 4:11). A restful soul displays humility, calmness, patience, gentleness, self-control, and peace. This kind of life is often more attractive than speculative theology. It is not achieved through reasoning alone but through inner transformation shaped by God, as taught by the Fathers of ancient times and the Desert Fathers.
Evangelical Vision: Why are younger generations, shaped by decentralized Internet culture, drawn to hierarchical and traditional denominations? What are they after?
Dr. Jiang Lanbo: Postmodern culture strongly emphasizes individual experience and remains skeptical of traditional authority and rational foundations. In this cultural climate, people no longer tend to understand life through objective truth or ultimate order but increasingly interpret the world from the perspective of personal experience.
Thus, in postmodern society, the pursuit of experience develops in different directions: some people center their lives on physical satisfaction, sensory pleasure, and immediate desires, while others begin to seek experiences of the soul, hoping in some way to access deeper spiritual or transcendent dimensions.
In a certain sense, the pursuit of spiritual experience reflects the very structure of human existence: human beings are not merely embodied beings but also possess a spiritual dimension. At the deepest level of human life, there exists a longing for the Infinite, an especially profound existential impulse. Accordingly, within postmodern culture, we can observe what is often described as a "spiritual revival."
It should be noted, however, that many forms of spirituality in postmodern culture remain centered on personal experience. This can be seen, for instance, in the globally popular prayer gatherings of the Taizé Community, as well as in spiritual practices that integrate elements from multiple religious traditions, such as meditation and mindfulness influenced by the New Age Movement, or approaches that draw on Eastern practices like Zen and yoga meditation. Such practices typically emphasize an immediate experience of the soul and often result in a certain degree of interreligious blending.
From an epistemological standpoint, however, experience in itself cannot constitute the ultimate ground of knowledge. While it may point toward transcendence, it cannot, by its own authority, serve as the final criterion of truth. From a Christian perspective, genuine faith is not founded upon experience, but upon God's self-initiated revelation. Faith in God is therefore not merely a form of religious experience, but an ontological transformation. In faith, the human person enters a new mode of being, no longer centered on subjective experience, but on the truth of God.
Within the patristic tradition, this structure of human existence is frequently articulated through the concept of the nous. At the deepest level of human life, there exists a spiritual faculty capable of opening toward God. The term nous appears over twenty times in the New Testament. When the nous is rightly ordered, the world no longer conceals God but instead serves as a sign that points toward Him. Conversely, when the nous is disordered, the world becomes a source of temptation and fragmentation.
Evangelical Vision: Protestantism often emphasizes 'hearing the word,' whereas Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy also place strong emphasis on liturgy. In this era of visual culture and short-form video, do you think this 'aesthetic impoverishment' is also one of the reasons why young people are drawn to the latter?
Dr. Jiang Lanbo: There is indeed such a factor. The Protestant tradition emphasizes the hearing of the word, which primarily operates on the level of human reason; however, the center of human life is not merely reason, but the "heart." The original biblical term is "kardia", which refers not only to emotions but also to the very center of human existence.
Therefore, the reception of truth is not only an act of rational understanding but also involves the response of the heart. If faith remains solely at the level of reason, it often fails to reach the deeper layers of human life.
In worship traditions that place greater emphasis on liturgy, elements such as visual form, music, bodily posture, and spatial order all participate together. This indeed provides a richer, imaginative, and aesthetic space for faith. Such an integrated sensory experience is often more capable of moving the human heart, leading people into a deeper sense of reverence and participation.
Evangelical Vision: Such a "turning" is often accompanied by a certain sense of disappointment. Based on your observations of churches in China's mainland, what kinds of deficiencies in Protestant churches do you think this tendency toward conversion may be reflecting?
Dr. Jiang Lanbo: This kind of turning is not necessarily entirely negative. In many cases, it reflects a search that hopes to complement the shortcomings of their own tradition by drawing on the strengths of others.
Protestant churches and Protestant theology themselves emerged from the ancient catholic (universal) church tradition. The Reformation brought new vitality to the church, but to some extent, because it was also quite radical, it discarded certain valuable traditions. For example, the rich ancient practices of Jesus Prayer and contemplation almost disappeared within Protestantism.
In addition, the Chinese society has long been shaped by an imperial cultural structure, in which people are accustomed to understanding religious life in terms of overall order and ideological unity. Within such a cultural background, churches often emphasize shared norms and correct doctrine, while placing less emphasis on encouraging believers to develop a personal, existential relationship with God. Even when the relationship between human beings and God is discussed, it often remains at the ethical level and rarely enters the depths of personal inner life or engages with the real tensions within the human heart.
For example, in Romans 7, Paul describes the "two laws" within the human heart. The Protestant tradition tends to address this primarily in terms of ethical demands, whereas the Church Fathers directly confronted this inner contradiction and offered a way of transforming human life. This approach is not merely ethics, but an ontological renewal. This represents a key difference between ancient Greek patristic theology and many later Protestant theological orientations.
Evangelical Vision: Can patristics and Orthodox spiritual traditions address these gaps?
Dr. Jiang Lanbo: Patristics and spiritual traditions are relatively well preserved in contemporary church life, especially within the Orthodox tradition. However, this does not mean that today's Eastern Orthodoxy fully continues the spiritual height of the ancient Church Fathers. The transmission of the patristic tradition requires not only systematic theological understanding but also genuine spiritual directors who can guide within concrete lived experience. Only in this way can it be passed on from generation to generation.
In reality, within modern Eastern churches, there are not many spiritual guides who possess deep spiritual experience and are truly capable of guiding others. At the same time, certain traditions have developed relatively fixed views, for example, the belief that without an officially recognized spiritual guide, one should not practice the Jesus Prayer or contemplative prayer. Such caution is understandable, since without discernment, spiritual practice can indeed go astray.
However, from the Protestant context, there is still some room for openness. If the Bible remains the foundation, and learning is undertaken carefully within the witness of church tradition, there is no need to be overly concerned about so-called "spiritual deviation" or "going astray." As Saint Anthony, known as the father of monasticism in the ancient desert monastic tradition, said, the Bible itself is sufficient to serve as a primary guide for our spiritual life.
At the same time, the large body of spiritual writings left by the saints also provides help for us. For example, the well-known spiritual anthology Philokalia collects many patristic teachings on prayer, vigilance, discernment, and the practice of inner life. These writings still possess significant spiritual value and guidance for Christians today. In a sense, if we study them seriously and practice them within church life, their guidance for spiritual formation is not inferior to that of a personal spiritual director.
Evangelical Vision: How are these traditions positioned and valued in Chinese Protestant seminaries and churches?
Dr. Jiang Lanbo: Chinese Protestant seminaries may encounter the study of Desert Fathers' spirituality at the "historical level." There are not many researchers who engage deeply with their thoughts and spiritual practice. This is mainly due to a difference in focus: greater emphasis is placed on correct theological doctrine and ethical norms, while the importance of inner spiritual growth is not yet fully acknowledged. In many cases, inner spiritual struggles are regarded as psychological issues, and pastoral care therefore relies more heavily on psychological methods.
Biblical counseling, as developed by Jay E. Adams, represents an improvement in this regard, emphasizing rational reasoning and the exposure of idolatry. However, it still largely remains at the rational level and does not fully reach the deeper spiritual conflicts within the human person. These conflicts cannot be resolved merely through human repentance alone; rather, they must be overcome through Christ, through spiritual warfare, and the renewal of life. However, many modern Protestant theologians and pastors show little interest in the concept of spiritual warfare, and therefore, their understanding in this area remains limited. In reality, demonic influences are constantly at work, tempting people through feelings, imagination, and distorted judgments. The Church Fathers were very clear about this: one must be vigilant and pray continually, namely, practice the Jesus Prayer; otherwise, one can easily fall into deception. As Jesus said: "Watch and pray, that you may not enter into temptation" (Matthew 26:41).
For the Greek Church Fathers, the root of human problems lies not primarily in individual will (as Western theology since Augustine of Hippo often interprets the fall as rooted in free will), but in the fact that the human nous is in darkness. The nous often follows the devil rather than God. This is not merely a matter of willful choice, but of confusion and deception that people often do not realize they are being misled. Even though Christ has saved us, the devil continues to work, persistently deceiving believers.
In patristic spirituality, the most important gift is "discernment," that is, the discernment of spirits as described in Scripture. This discernment takes place through vigilance and prayer, by which the Holy Spirit enables one to recognize evil thoughts and passions and identify their source. The Church Fathers understood that the devil often tempts humans through their own desires or worldly habits, like fishing for a catch, sometimes strengthening inner impressions through memory. When such impressions are not "in Christ," they become illusions that separate a person from life in Christ.
In theological education, if there is a lack of understanding regarding the operation of the "three enemies" (the devil, the world, and the flesh) and how victory is achieved in Christ, then it becomes easy to attribute all problems merely to human weakness or psychological states. Because human perception is limited and cannot clearly discern demonic activity, this often leads to inner confusion, weakness, self-condemnation, or even blaming others, making it difficult for people to face life's struggles together. If responses remain vague, simply "softening things over" by saying everyone has problems, it can result in stagnation or even regression in believers' spiritual lives.
Evangelical Vision: What kind of spiritual depth should a seminary student who is about to enter ministry have in the future? Over the years of teaching in seminaries, how do you view the faith quality and spiritual depth of contemporary seminary students?
Dr. Jiang Lanbo: Contemporary seminary students are generally highly enthusiastic and well-educated, but they often lack a deep understanding of human imperfection, or more precisely, they fail to face the darker aspects of human nature. Psychologists such as Sigmund Freud and Carl Jung have described this in depth, and theologians such as Søren Kierkegaard placed faith within paradox in order to explore the complexity of human existence. However, the Church Fathers, centuries earlier, had already revealed human inner tendencies and weaknesses through the so-called "eight passions" (or eight evil thoughts). This formulation is not only more consistent with Scripture but also provides a practical path for the kingdom of God to overcome the deception of the devil within the human heart.
Because modern theological education has largely neglected the exploration of inner spiritual life, seminary students often appear less realistic in their understanding of human nature. The prayer of the Church Fathers says: "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. I am an imperfect person, still full of various temptations to sin." This awareness of inner sinfulness cannot be resolved merely through repentance alone; rather, only God can gradually uproot sin from the deepest parts of the human heart. This requires long-term practice and contemplation.
If seminary students have not personally experienced the struggle against sin, they may easily reduce sin to mere ethical behavior, thereby lacking empathy, understanding, and the ability to address real human problems. Put simply, they know what is right, but do not know how to transform what is wrong into what is right. This directly affects their pastoral capacity. Shepherding a flock is like raising children: not only must physical life mature, but spiritual life must also grow. It is precisely in this regard that patristic theology has left its most valuable legacy.
Therefore, I place particular emphasis on the practice of the patristic disciplines of the Jesus Prayer and contemplation, guiding every willing learner to experience and embody these spiritual practices so that they become a concrete and lived form of life.
Evangelical Vision: You have long been engaged in theological education and in teaching patristics and spiritual theology. Could you reflect on your personal journey of faith and how these different traditions gradually came into your field of vision?
Dr. Jiang Lanbo: My interest in patristic spirituality did not arise from personal preference, but from within my faith experience, where I encountered contradictions that could not be resolved. The pastoral problems of Protestant churches, as well as theological education in seminaries, are generally insufficient in addressing these issues because human problems are certainly not limited to ethical questions.
When I traced back to the closest tradition to us, namely Catholic spirituality, I found it to be a vast intellectual and spiritual realm with a long history of exploration into human nature. However, its depth still did not fully satisfy me. It was only when I entered the tradition of the ancient Greek Fathers that I found what I was looking for, from The Life of St. Anthony the Great written by Athanasius of Alexandria, the Cappadocian Fathers' theology of personhood, The Life of Moses by Gregory of Nyssa, the apophatic (negative) theology in Mystical Theology by Pseudo-Dionysius the Areopagite, the synthesis of Maximus the Confessor, who developed a biblically grounded understanding of the nous, to The First-Created Man: Seven Homilies by St. Symeon the New Theologian, and finally to the 14th-century Triads in Defense of the Holy Hesychasts by Gregory Palamas.
This line of tradition is continuous and shares the same spiritual depth, though expressed in different forms. Compared with the Church Fathers, the medieval period can be seen as moving from humanity toward God, whereas the spirituality of the ancient Greek Fathers can be understood as moving from God toward humanity.
Evangelical Vision: After a long-term in-depth study of the Church Fathers and Eastern Orthodox spirituality, you are still a Protestantant. Have you ever experienced any inner struggle regarding conversion to another tradition?
Dr. Jiang Lanbo: I have not experienced any struggle, because this is not something I can decide on my own. I entrust myself to God; if God has not moved me toward conversion, then I have no intention of converting. I also appreciate certain aspects of Protestantism.
I believe that if Protestantism were able to integrate the spiritual practices of the Church Fathers, its vitality could even surpass that of Eastern Orthodoxy and Catholicism. In particular, in terms of engagement with contemporary society and the building of modern civilization, Protestant theology has been very proactive. Indeed, it has invested itself fully and persistently in social involvement and the practice of faith.
Moreover, we have all grown up within a Protestant environment and are more accustomed to its liturgical forms, patterns, and cultural habits. I once tried attending a Catholic mass, and the prolonged standing and kneeling nearly made me faint. Therefore, conversion is not something I am considering. I choose to remain where I am, in order to promote and transmit patristic spiritual theology within Protestantism.
Evangelical Vision: Some Protestant pastors claim that as Protestant seminaries pay more attention to church history, patristics, and spiritual theology, this tendency toward Catholicism or Eastern Orthodoxy will become more pronounced. Does this mean that it is moving further and further away from Protestantism?
Dr. Jiang Lanbo: This phenomenon does indeed pose a challenge to Protestantism, because patristics and spiritual theology represent a different epistemological path from that of Protestantism. However, as long as we maintain an open attitude, returning to the sources does not necessarily mean moving away from Protestantism. The key lies in attitude and method: if Protestantism becomes rigid and self-exalting, it will be unable to integrate other traditions and may also become distanced from both society and its believers. Protestant development is the result of historical choices, and in the modern era of highly developed civilization, Protestantism will not be eliminated. However, it must maintain self-criticism and clarity of awareness in order to effectively resist the impact of secularization and to preserve vitality and dynamism in its practice of faith.
At the same time, I would suggest that Protestant believers who desire doctrinal certainty, coherence, a sense of the sacred, and historical rootedness yet remain within the Protestant tradition and study the faith of the saints: Correct doctrine is certainly important, but relying solely on ideological correctness or external forms cannot, as Jesus said, enable us to "have life, and have it abundantly" (John 10:10). When we have invested much effort but do not see the desired results, it may indicate that the method or practice itself needs reconsideration. Therefore, believers must maintain a humble posture of self-examination, continually seeking in life and practice a genuine alignment with doctrine, history, and spiritual tradition.
- Translated by Charlie Li
